Interview express Rob Whitall, All terrain wing designer
Publié : lun. 15 déc. 2014 13:24
English version: (click on images to get full size - La version en français suit cette version anglaise):
LesFoilz: HI Rob, many thanks for accepting to be interviewed for LesFoilz.com. Maybe we could start with you telling us how you got into kite design? As far as I know, you have been involved in designing snow kites, tube kites, paragliders and speed flying wings. Have these different approaches to wing design been beneficial for each other?
Rob Whittall: I have been involved in testing and design since I was eighteen years old (now I am forty five) back then it was Hanggliders and the beginning of paragliding. I spent fifteen years testing and flying competitions. When we started Ozone we only made paragliders and I was mainly testing and flying competitions. One day I saw a photo of a guy on skis with a kite, I love to ski and snowboard so I asked the guys at Ozone if I could design a kite to ride on the snow. They thought it was a good idea so we started to develop kites, the Little Devil was born. I became addicted to snow kiting and we began to really develop kites and the sport because we were enjoying it so much. From there it was an easy step for us to enter the water market that was rapidly expanding as kitesurfing become so popular.
There is no question that my experience as a test pilot and involvement in design really helped me to understand flying wings but I am still learning every day and every proto. I think its good to be involved in many different design areas as you can use your experiences from the different sports to help achieve the goal.
FZ: 2014 has seen a sort of revolution in kite racing. Foils are now the norm to success in kite racing and the Chrono, thanks to you, has been a big player in this change. Could you tell us how you got the idea of designing a performance foilkite for racing at Ozone? This is particularly interesting because Ozone was already quite successful in kite racing with its tube kites. What were your objectives with the Chrono? What do you think would you not have achieved with tube kites?
RW: Racing is a big part of the sport and as with all racing there is a requirement for more performance. We made many inflatable protos to try to improve on the Edge but it just was not possible so we decided to try a high performance foil kite to see what might be possible. We had some success with the design so we made more prototypes until we had a wing that we felt was suitable for many people to ride and race. The Chrono is a good design and for our first project, it was a success but since then we have learn so much and the new designs we are working on are much better, more performance and stability but still very easy to fly if you have foil experience.
FZ: The impact of the Chrono (and Elf kites as well) on the kite racing tour this year has been so important that there was even a discussion at IKA about banning foil kites from the tour (the idea was pushed forward after the race in Poland) . It turned out that there will now be two classes this year, one for LEI and one for foils. Are you happy with this decision?
RW: Not such a good idea but we just have to work with it now. Two classes, more expense, more development and not enough racers so I think it is a bit pointless really. I think most people want to ride the maximum performance available so the inflatable class will not be very interesting in reality. I think there was a lot of politics in this decision and the big brands pushing for LEI’s because they don’t have foil experience! I hope I am wrong and both classes are a success but only time will tell.
FZ: Chronos are very high performance kites which seem to be dedicated to experienced kiters (some riders on FZ have been very impressed by this kite). They certainly contribute to the development of better kites (tubes and foils) but some argue that they may be tricky for people who overestimate their skills. What do you think about this?
RW: Don’t overestimate your skills…. I don’t think they are hard to fly but for sure you need to learn how to handle a foil if you are not used to them. I have a friend who is 64yrs and he is a cautious kiter but he took the Chrono for the first time and spent a lot of time learning how to handle it, now it is his favourite kite to use…. Be open and willing to learn and anything is possible.
FZ: You have chosen not to introduce a bridle tuning system on the chrono (flysurfer, for instance, has a mixer that allows adjusting the bridles: Mixer test explained by Armin Harich in a video). What were the reasons for this choice?
RW: We like to set the kites up to the optimum so we don’t use a mixer or trimming system. We might in the future but we want to keep it simple and easy for now.
FZ: Do you think that it would be interesting for Ozone to investigate whether a kite inspired by the Chrono, but slightly less refined (that is, less efficient but potentially more user friendly for people who, for instance, are not accustomed to foil kites), would be interested to put on the market? What would be the challenges in designing such a kite in your opinion?
RW: Yes we have seen that there is a need for an easy to use performance foil and we have just finished developing the ENDURO. I think it will be a great for anyone that wants to get into foil kites, great performance but with easy inflation, thicker bridals and more stability than the Chrono.
FZ: There is a new open cells foil kite in your product line this year, the Summit. It looks like being a very interesting progressive kite with an interesting aspect ratio and we are wondering if you were considering closing the cells of the Summit? More generally, with the success of the chrono, do you forecast that foils will develop more for water use in the future? Do you (or Ozone) plan to make new closed cells kites in the future (other than the Chrono)?
RW: Yes we all see now the potential for a full range of water foils but we have a lot of kites to design and refine so it might be a couple of years until we have a complete line up but it is coming. We have the new Chrono and the Enduro for now but I hope to start working on a basic water foil one day soon.
FZ: As you may know, at FZ we are very interested in waves and surfkiting and some of us (not all! But that is the interest of it) think that a foil kite would be a very interesting option for a kite dedicated to wave riding (Benoît Tremblay from Concept Air with his water smart has already made several steps in this direction). Given your experience in kite design, we are very interested in what you think should be the characteristics of a good wave kite and if a foil kite could be a good option in the future (in particular for kitesurfers / surfers who want to travel light and who don't want to worry about air leaks that could be a pain to repair during a trip).
RW: There is always a possibility and one day we might try to make a foil for waves but I think it is hard to do a better job than an LEI. From my personal experience in the waves I feel that the LEI is the best option because when you make a mistake and get you kite eaten by a wave the LEI can often fly again but the foil might become a big problem especially in big waves. Still it will be great challenge to make a foil that is better than the Reo in the waves. I will try but I am not expecting it to be easy.
FZ: Surfing with the kite often comes with downsizing, in South of France (but not only - I am also thinking about, amongst others, Guincho, NorCal, Cape Town, …,) it could well mean kiting with a 3-5m kite. Some people argue that foil kites are good for light winds and one should keep with LEIs for high winds. Do you see any difficulty in building closed cells foil kites for high wind? My own experience with my FS psycho 4 4m proto and Concept Air smart 4.5 proto is that foils are good high wind kites as long as sizing is good.
RW: We already have 5m and 7m Chrono, they are amazing and so much fun to ride, great for big air even on rough conditions and gusty winds. These kites are mainly for racing but free ride and big air is also very interesting with these small sizes.
FZ: The surfing world has seen some evolution in recent years. People are trying to re-imagine/re-design old designs (for instance with the mini-simmons but not only), there are hollow wooden boards popping up, ecological construction, people are doing cross-overs between surfing and other activities (biking for instance with Deus custom, building camper vans and surf trips Escape from bigfoot country, etc.) … in other words, it seems that surfing is again linked to exploring different ways of life, not (only) considering surfing/kitesurfing as a consumption good/activity. It looks like this change (whose magnitude is difficult to assess) goes hand in hand with a kind of renewal of craftsmanship (see e.g. 'Shop Class as Soulcraft” by Matthew Crawford). How do you see the development of a well-established brand like Ozone in this movement?
RW: I think the most important part of this discussion is that function comes before fashion…. This is a fashion movement at this time and for us at Ozone, function must come first. There is a lot of re inventing the wheel going on but that is not progress, it’s just different. I don’t think it is what we do at Ozone, we concentrate on progress as that is our passion. Its good to mix and match and look at the past but as a reference, we need to define the future in our own way to make progress.
Thanks for the interview… I hope it helps people to understand a little more.
FZ: Many thanks Rob!
LesFoilz: HI Rob, many thanks for accepting to be interviewed for LesFoilz.com. Maybe we could start with you telling us how you got into kite design? As far as I know, you have been involved in designing snow kites, tube kites, paragliders and speed flying wings. Have these different approaches to wing design been beneficial for each other?
Rob Whittall: I have been involved in testing and design since I was eighteen years old (now I am forty five) back then it was Hanggliders and the beginning of paragliding. I spent fifteen years testing and flying competitions. When we started Ozone we only made paragliders and I was mainly testing and flying competitions. One day I saw a photo of a guy on skis with a kite, I love to ski and snowboard so I asked the guys at Ozone if I could design a kite to ride on the snow. They thought it was a good idea so we started to develop kites, the Little Devil was born. I became addicted to snow kiting and we began to really develop kites and the sport because we were enjoying it so much. From there it was an easy step for us to enter the water market that was rapidly expanding as kitesurfing become so popular.
There is no question that my experience as a test pilot and involvement in design really helped me to understand flying wings but I am still learning every day and every proto. I think its good to be involved in many different design areas as you can use your experiences from the different sports to help achieve the goal.
FZ: 2014 has seen a sort of revolution in kite racing. Foils are now the norm to success in kite racing and the Chrono, thanks to you, has been a big player in this change. Could you tell us how you got the idea of designing a performance foilkite for racing at Ozone? This is particularly interesting because Ozone was already quite successful in kite racing with its tube kites. What were your objectives with the Chrono? What do you think would you not have achieved with tube kites?
RW: Racing is a big part of the sport and as with all racing there is a requirement for more performance. We made many inflatable protos to try to improve on the Edge but it just was not possible so we decided to try a high performance foil kite to see what might be possible. We had some success with the design so we made more prototypes until we had a wing that we felt was suitable for many people to ride and race. The Chrono is a good design and for our first project, it was a success but since then we have learn so much and the new designs we are working on are much better, more performance and stability but still very easy to fly if you have foil experience.
FZ: The impact of the Chrono (and Elf kites as well) on the kite racing tour this year has been so important that there was even a discussion at IKA about banning foil kites from the tour (the idea was pushed forward after the race in Poland) . It turned out that there will now be two classes this year, one for LEI and one for foils. Are you happy with this decision?
RW: Not such a good idea but we just have to work with it now. Two classes, more expense, more development and not enough racers so I think it is a bit pointless really. I think most people want to ride the maximum performance available so the inflatable class will not be very interesting in reality. I think there was a lot of politics in this decision and the big brands pushing for LEI’s because they don’t have foil experience! I hope I am wrong and both classes are a success but only time will tell.
FZ: Chronos are very high performance kites which seem to be dedicated to experienced kiters (some riders on FZ have been very impressed by this kite). They certainly contribute to the development of better kites (tubes and foils) but some argue that they may be tricky for people who overestimate their skills. What do you think about this?
RW: Don’t overestimate your skills…. I don’t think they are hard to fly but for sure you need to learn how to handle a foil if you are not used to them. I have a friend who is 64yrs and he is a cautious kiter but he took the Chrono for the first time and spent a lot of time learning how to handle it, now it is his favourite kite to use…. Be open and willing to learn and anything is possible.
FZ: You have chosen not to introduce a bridle tuning system on the chrono (flysurfer, for instance, has a mixer that allows adjusting the bridles: Mixer test explained by Armin Harich in a video). What were the reasons for this choice?
RW: We like to set the kites up to the optimum so we don’t use a mixer or trimming system. We might in the future but we want to keep it simple and easy for now.
FZ: Do you think that it would be interesting for Ozone to investigate whether a kite inspired by the Chrono, but slightly less refined (that is, less efficient but potentially more user friendly for people who, for instance, are not accustomed to foil kites), would be interested to put on the market? What would be the challenges in designing such a kite in your opinion?
RW: Yes we have seen that there is a need for an easy to use performance foil and we have just finished developing the ENDURO. I think it will be a great for anyone that wants to get into foil kites, great performance but with easy inflation, thicker bridals and more stability than the Chrono.
FZ: There is a new open cells foil kite in your product line this year, the Summit. It looks like being a very interesting progressive kite with an interesting aspect ratio and we are wondering if you were considering closing the cells of the Summit? More generally, with the success of the chrono, do you forecast that foils will develop more for water use in the future? Do you (or Ozone) plan to make new closed cells kites in the future (other than the Chrono)?
RW: Yes we all see now the potential for a full range of water foils but we have a lot of kites to design and refine so it might be a couple of years until we have a complete line up but it is coming. We have the new Chrono and the Enduro for now but I hope to start working on a basic water foil one day soon.
FZ: As you may know, at FZ we are very interested in waves and surfkiting and some of us (not all! But that is the interest of it) think that a foil kite would be a very interesting option for a kite dedicated to wave riding (Benoît Tremblay from Concept Air with his water smart has already made several steps in this direction). Given your experience in kite design, we are very interested in what you think should be the characteristics of a good wave kite and if a foil kite could be a good option in the future (in particular for kitesurfers / surfers who want to travel light and who don't want to worry about air leaks that could be a pain to repair during a trip).
RW: There is always a possibility and one day we might try to make a foil for waves but I think it is hard to do a better job than an LEI. From my personal experience in the waves I feel that the LEI is the best option because when you make a mistake and get you kite eaten by a wave the LEI can often fly again but the foil might become a big problem especially in big waves. Still it will be great challenge to make a foil that is better than the Reo in the waves. I will try but I am not expecting it to be easy.
FZ: Surfing with the kite often comes with downsizing, in South of France (but not only - I am also thinking about, amongst others, Guincho, NorCal, Cape Town, …,) it could well mean kiting with a 3-5m kite. Some people argue that foil kites are good for light winds and one should keep with LEIs for high winds. Do you see any difficulty in building closed cells foil kites for high wind? My own experience with my FS psycho 4 4m proto and Concept Air smart 4.5 proto is that foils are good high wind kites as long as sizing is good.
RW: We already have 5m and 7m Chrono, they are amazing and so much fun to ride, great for big air even on rough conditions and gusty winds. These kites are mainly for racing but free ride and big air is also very interesting with these small sizes.
FZ: The surfing world has seen some evolution in recent years. People are trying to re-imagine/re-design old designs (for instance with the mini-simmons but not only), there are hollow wooden boards popping up, ecological construction, people are doing cross-overs between surfing and other activities (biking for instance with Deus custom, building camper vans and surf trips Escape from bigfoot country, etc.) … in other words, it seems that surfing is again linked to exploring different ways of life, not (only) considering surfing/kitesurfing as a consumption good/activity. It looks like this change (whose magnitude is difficult to assess) goes hand in hand with a kind of renewal of craftsmanship (see e.g. 'Shop Class as Soulcraft” by Matthew Crawford). How do you see the development of a well-established brand like Ozone in this movement?
RW: I think the most important part of this discussion is that function comes before fashion…. This is a fashion movement at this time and for us at Ozone, function must come first. There is a lot of re inventing the wheel going on but that is not progress, it’s just different. I don’t think it is what we do at Ozone, we concentrate on progress as that is our passion. Its good to mix and match and look at the past but as a reference, we need to define the future in our own way to make progress.
Thanks for the interview… I hope it helps people to understand a little more.
FZ: Many thanks Rob!